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No one is denying that Jesus is divine. But we are denying that he is THE divine. The Most High God is his Father and Jesus is his son. This is the testimony of Jesus and scripture. We accept it. And our faithful brother Paul said, “for us, there is one God the Father” and we concur.
Whereas you are trying to coax us into “For us, there is one God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. You are changing the truth of God into something you desire.
I am going to have to side with Jesus and Paul on this issue DavidL. And so will anyone else who hears Jesus words and wants the truth more than pride in one’s own understanding and traditions.
@ davidL
You said: “John’s revelation of Christ ‘proves’ His Deity…which directly ‘supports’ the Trinity..”
Once again, what you infer doesn’t match with scripture and it is scripture which proves your teaching as wrong. You are inferring that Revelation supports your idea that Jesus is God. You are wrong. I will now give you three witness scriptures in Revelation as correction.
“The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, “
So you have been caught out again DavidL. You are teaching false doctrine. Ask yourself. Who is God in the opening verse of Revelation. Furhter, who is God in these verses:
Revelation 1:6 (English-NIV)
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Revelation 3:12 (English-NIV)
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God.
Never again will he leave it.
I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.DavidL, have read of Hebrews 1. The read on.
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There is a supreme being called God and he has a divine son, whom he sent to this world to take on human form and die in our place They are of like substance not same substance they are two separate beings and individuals in their own right They are one only in the sense that they ask us to be one in them.
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Trinity’s origin is historically pagan and didn’t enter so called christianity until they looked at platonic thought and applied this at the council of nicea. (By the way, Plato was a pagan). At the council of nicea, man defined who and what god was. Remember, many if not all at the council of nicea, were pagan worshipers.
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The Jews have never believed in a trinity then or now and who are we to tell them the concept of what their own language is saying?
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Truth vs tradition….. That’s your issue here and nothing else. Either you want to know the truth or your happy with tradition. Truth is not easy to find or digest, in fact it can be a lonely journey.
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After reading some of your comments it’s plain to see you have a limited understanding of what this web site has to say. I’m not suggesting you believe the views here, but at least understand what your arguing about. No one said that Jesus was not Devine, that’s you limited understanding.
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Remember, Jesus is here with the Fathers authority (Mathew 28:18) and will hand back the kingdom as stated in 1 Corinthians 15:24How did you go fitting a trinity into Hebrews 1..?
Paul – the Jews deny the Trinity for the same reason you do – the absence of Spiritual enlightenment…!
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The Apostle John declared, “IN THE BEGINNING…was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was…GOD” – John 1:1
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Now when a believer in Yeshua reads Genesis 1:1 “IN THE BEGINNING *GOD* created the heavens and the earth” he sees the Father and the Son contained within that ONE word “GOD”….!!
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Why does he see that..? Because the Spirit of GOD hovered over the dark void of his chaotic understanding and brought Light…!
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And does this contradict the rest of Scripture as t8 suggests..? NO – it illuminates Scripture…shedding light on the darkness and confusion of our comprehension…
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“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.” – John 17:5
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“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.'” – John 8:58
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“I and the Father are ONE.” – John 10:30
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The Jehovah’s Witnesses have interpreted John 1:1 to mean that there are now TWO gods – God the Father, and god the Word…it is this idea that is so foreign to Jewish thought, and so obviously NOT what John is saying by the Spirit.DavidL,
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I was similar to you (not quite as hard headed). I tried desperately to make the trinity work, after all, it’s main steam thought. If people much smarter than myself said this is correct, who am I to argue it?
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Checked in with my pastor, who I held in high regard, told me “don’t take the father son thing literally. It’s just a concept used so you can understand”. So I naturally asked which parts of the bible to I take literally and with parts do I not take literally. I was shocked when he said just check with him, he’ll let me know.
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Trained baptist minister of 40 odd years ?
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Alarm bells are ringing…!
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The more I looked and researched, the more I realised it was most likely the great deception described in Revelation. The only truth in the trinity is “the world will be deceived”
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That cross you’ve got proudly displayed some where, it’s not the symbol of Christianity but the symbol of the sun god Tammuz.
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Think about your upcoming Christmas celebrations. Not Jesus birthday, it’s the birthday of Tammuz. I won’t be celebrating it.
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be willfully ignorant…. Nothing I can do about it. Your attitude has condemned you to babylonian worship…….“The Trinity” by Charles Spurgeon
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“Endeavor to know THE FATHER. Approach Him in deep repentance, and confess that you are not worthy to be called His son; receive the kiss of His love; let the ring that is the token of His eternal faithfulness be on your finger; sit at His table and let your heart rejoice in His grace.
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Then press forward and seek to know much of THE SON OF GOD who although He is the brightness of His Father’s glory humbled Himself and became man for our sakes. Know Him in the singular complexity of His nature: eternal God, and yet suffering, finite man; follow Him as He walks the waters with the tread of deity, and as He sits down at the well tired in the weariness of humanity. Do not be satisfied unless you know much of Jesus Christ as your Friend, your Brother, your Husband, your all.
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Do not forget THE HOLY SPIRIT. Endeavor to obtain a clear view of His nature and character, His attributes, and His works. Behold the Spirit of the Lord, who first of all moved upon chaos and brought forth order, who now visits the chaos of your soul and creates the order of holiness. Behold Him as the Lord and giver of spiritual life, the Illuminator, the Instructor, the Comforter, and the Sanctifier. Behold Him as He descends upon the head of Jesus, and then as He rests upon you.
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Such an intelligent, scriptural, and experiential belief in the Trinity is yours if you truly know God; and such knowledge brings peace indeed.”
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http://tollelege.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/the-trinity-by-charles-spurgeon/david
there is only one repentance no dept to it ,either it is a true repentance or a false one ,if you repent the confession of your sins have already been said ,thy are part of the repentance ,
the approach of God is done has you are ,where you are,how you are ;God only sees your heart and your sincerity toward his righteousness,and truth ,God does not listen to anyone but only to those that truly seek him with all their hearts ,
and knowing and recognizing that Jehovah is your creator and that you are his creation ,and that he as done for men to receive eternal life if we obey him ,so learning his will in the scriptures and researching the truth of God would be the key to everlasting life ,
no one men (except Christ) can know Gods full nature ,if someone as the guts to say it HE IS A LIAR,
the holy spirit of truth is God’s tool that interact with men for the fulfillment of his will or plan.so it is from God,
the power of God is more active in power intensity but also is from God ,
all what this shows is that all things comes from God ,the rest of your comment on the holy spirit does not make sens it seems more that you have not understood the scriptures ,
DavidL doesn’t understand the scriptures, nor does he want to. He is happy with the failings of trinity teaching.
lol. I would love to see him produce a scripture that says we must believe in the Trinity. I can show him how important it is to believe that Jesus is the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord. But DavidL can’t produce one scripture that says we must believe Jesus is part of the Trinity.
DavidL is caught up in Babylon as most of the world is. Showing signs of being drunk on false religion.Scripture is clear for those who have eyes to see..yet, just as the Pharisees denied Christ in His day – so also today…’unbelief’ is still the enemy of all true revelation.
They denied that he was the Christ and the son of God. This is what we are defending.
The Trinity subtly denies the son. It says he is God, thus making it impossible to be the son of God or the son of himself.
Satan is very crafty and sly. Jesus is either God himself or the son of this God. He cannot be both God and his own Father.Rather than denying the Son (as you say) the revelation of the Divinity of Christ as ONE with the Father, exalts the Son to His rightful place of worship..equal to God. He is God AND the Son of God, just as the Scriptures declare – “…the Word was WITH God, and the Word WAS God.”
You said, “Rather than denying the Son (as you say) the revelation of the Divinity of Christ as ONE with the Father, exalts the Son to His rightful place of worship..equal to God.”
That is an oxymoron right there. You say he is equal to God. But being equal to God is testament that he is not God. When you are equal to anything it means you are not that thing but like it. Since when does anyone say, I am equal to myself? No you identify yourself. You don’t say, I am equal to myself.
Wake up. The hour draws near.I am glad that you cannot help me with regards to me accepting your Trinity Doctrine. If you teach in accordance with Jesus, Peter, John, and Paul, then I would gladly accept your help. But you give me a choice to believe you or Jesus and the Apostles.
You:
For us there is one true God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Jesus and the Apostles:
For us there is one true God the Father, who sent HIS son into the world so that the world may be saved.
Of course there is no question about it. I choose Jesus and the Apostles and will not listen to any opposing voice. Jesus sheep hear his voice and not that of another who tries to lead people away from the words of truth.And the only confusion I see here is the Trinity Doctrine which teaches that God is triune and each person is 100% God. If men believe that fable then they will believe anything.
Question all teachings and test the spirits as not all are of God.t8 – Let Scripture interpret Scripture – “We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.” – 1 John 5:19,20
If eternal life is in the Father (the only true God), then why are we to be baptized ONLY in the name of Jesus..? the truth is that the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ – to be baptized in Christ IS to be baptized in the Father, Son and Spirit..
DavidL, God has GIVEN no other name under heaven by which we must be saved. Jesus was given by who? By God.
Jesus said, “I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive”. In other words, he came not in his own name but his Father’s.
When we do something in the name of someone it is usually in a higher name. We should do all things in the name of Jesus and Jesus does all things for his Father who is God.
God has given us Jesus his son. This is a truth saying.
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