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Testing the Trinity

The Spirit is the Spirit OF God
Yeshua is the son OF God.
So is the Father, the Father of God?

No he is God. He is not OF anyone. Even Paul stated this when he said, “for us there is one God the Father”. Today’s confession goes more like this: “for us there is one God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit”. So what is going on?

God had challenged my belief on the Trinity many years ago, as I blindly believed and excepted this doctrine as a pillar of my faith and assumed that it was the foundation of Christianity. But like most Christians, I had never really check it out. I knew at the time that God wants us to know what we believe in and to test all things and also to watch our doctrine closely.

When I started to look into the Trinity Doctrine I found many scriptures that really challenged my belief so I set out to understand the truth. When I brought the subject up with other Christians including many people who were older in the faith, there seemed to be this “do not question attitude” and in the end I decided rather than make waves, I would just leave it and except that the Trinity Doctrine was correct even though I felt that I was being untrue to the conviction in my heart. My problem was the fear of man. Many years later God made me face my belief in the Trinity again and he kept putting certain scriptures in front of me. In the end I decided that I would not run away from this anymore and I did a full on study where God divinely lead me to a new scripture, about one each day and each scripture in succession built a picture that really helped me to understand what he was conveying to me. First of all I would like to say that I have a clear understanding of the Trinity Doctrine and am very familiar with the scriptures that people use to support this doctrine.

Anyway what I discovered was quite interesting and I will condense what I have been shown below.

  1. The Trinity Doctrine is not taught anywhere in scripture, but trinities were common in Paganism. They are rooted in Babylon, prominent in Egypt, still exist in India, and is the foundation of Roman Catholicism.
  2. The beginnings of recognition of this doctrine for Christianity started at the Council of Nicea approximately 325 AD. Hundreds of years after the last book in the Bible was written.
  3. The Council of Nicea was organized by the Roman Emperor Constantine and he had the final say on matters that he had little understanding of. He was also head of the Pagan religions.
  4. During and after the Holy Roman Empire, creed followed creed, and eventually idols were accepted as forms that we can worship God through. Mary was exalted to Mother of God (a title that goes back to Babylon) and worship of the saints was also sanctioned.
  5. The organized church we see today was built on top of these creeds. The creeds were and are the foundation for many of today’s churches/denominations. These denominations are not to be confused with the Body of Christ spoken of in the scripture. Most denominations are still rooted in a Trinitarian creed of some kind. So their foundation is the Trinity which came from Babylon.
  6. The mother of these denominations the Roman Catholic Church murdered approximately 50 million people, had armies which Jesus said his church did not need, and banned access to scripture to Christians. This time is known by the descriptive term, ‘The Dark Ages’.
  7. Some relief came during the Reformation where the teachings and authority of the Catholic Church were challenged. The Reformation restored many truths back to the Body of Christ.
  8. As a result of the Reformation, many new denominations started up, but they too held onto some of the creeds including the Trinity Doctrine.
  9. Babylon means confusion and the foundation of most denominations is the Trinity Doctrine which is confusing to all, even proponents of the doctrine. We are told to come out Babylon the Mystery religion lest we partake in her sins and iniquity. Who is Babylon? She is the mother of all harlots and the kings of the Earth have committed adultery with her. She is the religious system that was rooted in Babylon and she has made the whole world drunk on her wine.

From a historical point of view it seems strange to me that one of the pillars of Christianity didn’t come into existence or wasn’t recognized until 300 years after the death of Christ. On this point alone, I think its strange that we are encouraged not to question this doctrine and worse still, the the circumstances in which this doctrine came about should lead any clear thinking person to be at least suspicious.

In addition to that, the fruit of this doctrine appears to be bad. We know that one lie leads to another and history shows us that making Jesus God, opened the door for Mary to become the mother of God. Further, if Mary is the Mother of God, then that opens the door to the worship of other humans or saints.

In Revelation 17 we read about the ‘Mother of Harlots’ or the Great Prostitute who sits on many waters. Many people have speculated on her identity. Some say it is New York or the USA, others say it is Rome. If you are not familiar with this section of scripture, then it would pay to read it now before reading on.

Lets imagine for a minute that it is Rome as Rome is after all known to this day as the city of 7 hills. Now Constantine the Roman Emperor who dictated to the church so called truth becomes the original model of the person we call the Pope today. The Pope sits on a throne with supreme authority to dictate so called truth to the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church admits by it’s very name that it’s roots are in Rome and many of the traditions she adheres to come from Pagan traditions and festivals and were re-branded as Christian back in the days of Emperor Constantine. In one sense we can see that these creeds led to the worship of idols and men and changed the truth of God to a lie. But in order for these man-made creeds and lies to be administered and managed, there needed to exist some kind of organization of man to manage the politics of enforcing such creeds. The organizations are of course the organized churches of which the Catholic church is perhaps the mother which would make the smaller denominations the harlots or daughters of the harlot. The term ‘Mother of Harlots’ of course leads us to wonder who the daughters or offspring are. We also read that the kings of the earth have committed adultery with this harlot and we all know that many world leaders befriend the organized church so they can leverage her influence for their own political agendas and to gain votes. There will however come a time when God will call his children out of her because he will judge her quickly.

Babel, Babylon, Egypt, and Rome all have one thing in common. Their motives were to become great and make a name themselves. They also built structures as a way of showing their greatness and prowess. But the spirit of Babylon, Egypt, and Rome also enslave the children of God and also hated them to the point of death. In Rev 17 we read that the woman was drunk on the blood of the saints and is guilty of all the martyrs. History also records the dreadful killings of Christians by Rome and the enslavement of Israel by Egypt, but how many people are aware that the Catholic Church is also responsible for burning to death millions of people including Christians. They were killed as ‘heretics’ for things like reading scripture, translating scripture, or daring to obey the scriptures instead of their traditions.

Many denominations today still operate under this spirit of control including the persecution of those who question doctrines like the Trinity. Try questioning this doctrine in any denomination that is built on this creed, and watch the horror on people’s faces and the warnings that will proceed thereafter.

We know from scripture that the curse of Babel was division. The Babylonians built a tower in their name and God divided their language to weaken them, lest they succeed in all kinds of wickedness. But this spirit also exists in the organised churches. Each Denomination has its own creed, its own leaders and own customs or tradition, and they are all about making a name for themselves. They build towers in their name and in times past the steeples on these structure were the tallest structures in their communities. Now can you see that denominations are really just the divided languages of Christianity, just the same as divisions caused by multiple natural languages resulting from Babel. And the reason for this division is not what many think, it is so they cannot together succeed at works of iniquity and while in this divisive state, they cannot accomplish anything their hearts desire. True unity is extremely important and something that God will bring about and is already doing. But unity in the love and truth of God is paramount, not unity in making a name for themselves. People are misguided when they think that it would be a good thing if all the denominations united under one banner. What is better it people uniting in the truth because of their love of God and all things that are of him.

You might ask, God uses denominations to spread his gospel does he not. The quick answer to this is God uses men to do his work. If these men are part of a denomination or not, God uses the man, not the building and not the system. If you look into this you will likely find that the system actually hinders men in being led the the Spirit of God and the system itself takes up much resources to run, when instead such resources could help the poor and needy.

Many are being used by God for his purposes and this has been true since the birth of the Church. In times of great ignorance, it appears that God does compromise for our benefit. He works with what he can and we often limit God, but God is constantly trying to give us access to his limitless resources. In this age of denominations, it is hard to accept that there really is only one church built on the foundation of Christ and the Apostles. The only divisions are actually geographical divisions. The 7 churches in Revelation for example aren’t 7 separate churches, but 7 cities in which the Church resides. For example, in the Book of Revelation where it says: “to the Church in Laodecia”, it is saying to the Body of Christ in that particular city. We need to open our eyes in order to see the real Church. When you can really see the Body of Christ, you will never again say, I am going to church, because you will realize that we are the Church regardless of your location. This explains why we also read in 1 Corinthians 16:19: “The churches of Asia send greetings to you. Aquila and Prisca greet you warmly in the Lord, with the church that meets in their house.”. So this simply means the part of the Church that meets in that house. It was not a denomination like we see today.

Most denominations today have a Statement of Faith as their foundation and these are usually based on creeds formed centuries ago. Often Christians are invited or required to take out membership and that often requires an acceptance of a particular Statement of Faith. This sort of thing is common, yet it is unscriptural and deceives people into thinking that the denomination is the Church and once they have membership they belong to the Church. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Anyone can agree to a Statement of Faith or a Creed, even a mass murderer could do that. True believers believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord, the Son of God, and the Messiah. The true Church is made up of God’s children and He dwells in them via his Spirit. Denominations on the other hand can contain true believers, but they can also contain non-believers, criminals, and unrepentant sinners. All true believers should use scripture and the Word of God as our Statement of Faith and we should realize that there is only One Church called the Body of Christ. The head of the true Church is Jesus Christ himself, not a Pope, Archbishop, or a president. We would do well to keep away from the words, wisdom and traditions of men.

Now the Trinity Doctrine says that God is made up of three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But the truth is that the only true God is the Father. The son is just that, he is the Son of God, not God himself.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

The above scripture is not to be taken lightly. Do not pass over it until you have grasped it. After all, it is eternal life and isn’t that the point of having faith in God?

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Clearly, the God and Father of all is the Father and not Jesus. Jesus is the Lord according to the above scripture.

Instead of using the Trinity to describe the God and his relationship with his Son. how about use Jesus own words. Are not his words better than some creed that came from man? John 15:1-2
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

This scripture shows the same 3 levels that we see in the scripture below. Note: The word head means authority, head or source.

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

The scriptures show us that we believers are united in doctrine by believing the following:

  • God exists and rewards those that seek him.
  • We must repent of our sins and turn to God and serve him.
  • Jesus is the only way to God and we should be baptized into his name.
  • Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.
  • Jesus died for our sins and was raised from the dead to the highest position (throne), that he may present us to God, holy and sanctified.
  • Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the Church.
  • The Spirit of God leads us and teaches us all things.
  • That Jesus will return to earth and all the earthly kingdoms will fall. The Kingdom of God will come to earth.

I can have true unity of purpose with anyone that believes these points. The Trinity should never be pushed or taught as a doctrine, but today it is taught not only as a doctrine, but a foundational doctrine. However the Trinity Doctrine as a foundation is actually another foundation. Another foundation is not the same as the true foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now Matthew 16:13-18 has a key for us.
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

Jesus commends Peter when he declares that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Now Peter never said that Jesus was God at that opportune moment, but I am sure that many Christians given the same question today would say that he is God, yet that answer is different to the one Peter was commended for. Jesus actually built his Church on this truth, so it is obvious from this alone that the Trinity Doctrine is not the foundation of Jesus Church.

Now it is easy to show scriptures that show the Father to be God and there also appear to be a few scriptures that say that Jesus is God (Elohim, Theos). Most of the time Jesus is referred to as the Son of God. Even the Devil and demons called him the Son of God. See Matthew 8:29 & Matthew 4:3-6

But a lot of people also ignore the fact that we humans are also called Gods. John 10:34 uses the word “theos” to describe Man.
Psalms 82:6 uses the word “Elohim” to describe Man.

The word God is also used for Idols and Satan.
Exodus 20:23 uses the word “elohim” to describe Idols.
2 Corinthians 4:4 uses the word “theos” of this world to describe Satan.

But it must be made clear that ‘Elohim’ and ‘Theos’ are not names of God, they are titles in the same way Master is a title. When we see the word God, it is important to read the adjectives to see what kind of God is being referred to. E.g. the Most High God (the Father) is different to the God of this age (Satan).

Now there are many gods as I have pointed out, but the Father is the Most High God. See 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 which says
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Also remember that Jesus calls us brethren/brothers. But to the Father we are his children or offspring.

Now Psalm 2:7 says
“I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”

So the name of the Most High God is (YHWH) which is referred to by scholars as Yahweh. So Yahweh (God) is the Father of Jesus. So it is clear that Jesus is not Yahweh. He is Yahweh’s Son. Now Jesus in Hebrew is Yashua and he is never referred to as Yahweh. Yashua means “Yahweh saves” or “Yahweh is salvation”. So God’s name is in his son’s name. (Yah)

Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this reason I kneel before the Father,
15 from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name.

Just like Trinitarians today, the Jews thought that Jesus was claiming to be God, but Jesus defended this accusation with the following words in John 10:34-36
34 “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’?
35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

So the Jews accused Jesus of saying he was God and instead of agreeing and saying something like “Yes I am God” Jesus defended himself with the statement “You are Gods (theos) and then he stresses that he was claiming to be the Son of God.” Many Christians still make the same mistake today. Read John 10:27-36 to read the above words of Jesus in context. In that context, Jesus even said to the Jews that the Father was greater than himself.

So who is Jesus. The following Statements are from the scriptures, and should be the words that we trust in in order to understand who Jesus really is.

  • God has spoken to us through the Prophets and now his Son.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • The Son is the exact brightness of God’s glory.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • He is the image of the invisible God.
    See Colossians 1:12-16
  • God sustains all things by his Word (Jesus is the Word of God).
    See Hebrews 1:1-6 & John 1:1
  • He is seated at the right hand of God.
    See Colossians 3:1-3
  • He inherited a name more superior to the Angels.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • He is worthy to be worshipped by Angels.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • God became a Father when he begat his son “You are my Son, today I have become your Father”.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • He is the Firstborn from the Dead.
    See Revelation 1:4-6
  • Jesus has first place in everything.
    See Colossians 1:18
  • Jesus is head over the Church.
    See Ephesians 1:22
  • He is Gods firstborn.
    See Hebrews 1:1-6
  • Jesus is the Ruler or Beginning of the Creation of God.
    See Revelation 3:14
  • Jesus is begotten, not created.
    See John 1:3

The last scripture above, shows us that Jesus was not created. Many other scriptures show us that Jesus is begotten (born). See John 1:18 & John 3:18

Jesus is truly the only begotten Son of God. Yes we too are the Sons of God, but we were begotten from God through his Word (Christ). All creation was made this way. But Jesus was begotten directly from God and he is the exact image of God. And we (the church) are the image of Christ. Again I point out the importance of 1Corinthians 11:3 and Colossians 2:8-10 which says,
in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

Here we can see clearly that Christ is the fullness of God and we the Church are the fullness of Christ. So consider this, if we use this scripture to say that Jesus is God, then in all fairness we have to conclude that we are Christ. This is of course a misinterpretation of scripture. The truth is that Jesus has the divine nature and God also wants us to share that nature too. So just as the Deity is in Christ, Christ is in us.

To be divine and to be the Divine is two different things. One identifies a nature and the other identifies a person. God is the Divine and he shares his nature with his sons who are part of his family. Christ has divine nature as the Son is like his Father. But did you know hat we can also partake of the divine nature and still not be God? And if you understand that, then it must be that if Jesus has divine nature, then that also does not make him God.

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Moving on, Matthew 24:36 shows us clearly that the Son doesn’t know everything, yet God is all knowing.
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. My confession is that Jesus Christ is Lord and I believe that all will confess this one day. And I also believe that God is Spirit and Invisible and that he resides inside and outside of his creation. See 2 Chronicles 2:6. Similar to physical light, it is invisible except that it reveals all things. Now when light strikes a prism it reflects all the colours and this is like Christ. He reveals and reflects God who is light. Jesus reveals the Invisible Spirit who dwells in him. Jesus has a body and the glory of God is visible to us in Christ. There is no other way for us to se God or to know God or to fellowship with God. Jesus is the only Mediator between Man and God.

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Jesus is the Image of God and he is seated on the Fathers throne above creation and Jesus seats us on his throne.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. Jesus calls his Father, God and he says that his God is also our God. See John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ” & Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Also in John 8:28 we read the following:
Jesus said “I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me”

Now 1 Corinthians 15:27 shows us clearly that Jesus is not God.
27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When the Most High God is being referred to, it is always talking about the Father.

John 3:16 says
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

To sum up: 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 embodies what I am saying.
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

The Trinity makes and idol out of God. Its no different to making a graven image from your hands as it is to make God into a diagram in your mind. It is the nature of Man to do so. The Trinity and Nicene Creed is the founding document to the man made organized religion that has suppressed and kept in fear many of Gods people. Upon that creed many heresies followed. If its origin is man then its fruit will be death, control and fear and history has revealed the fruit of this doctrine. God is a person and the Trinity Doctrine says that God is a class/family. We know that there are many gods, so the word ‘god’ can be used in the sense of class, but there is only one God the person otherwise there would be more than 1 God. I and many others including the Jews believe that God is a person, not an organization. Perhaps God is calling us out of Egypt and her gods. This is where the Trinity Doctrine came from and the Egyptians already worshipped a Trinity before the gospel reached them. All they did was replace the names. But the concept remains the same. A Christian appearance but a pagan heart. Two more scriptures before I finish.

Proverbs 8:22-30 Talks about someone who was brought forth by God, yet existed before creation and witnessed God creating the Cosmos.
Matthew 3:17 says “And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased” So WHO is Jesus? He is the Christ, the Son of God, the Word of God, the Image of God and the Wisdom of God. He is of God and shares his nature, but he is not that God in identity. The true God is his Father and our Father.

For a more in depth look at this subject, see the writing The Trinity Doctrine.

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144 Responses to "Testing the Trinity"

  1. Avatar of Lightenup Lightenup says:

    Those who believe what Peter said when he identifies Jesus as the Son of God don’t always believe what Peter said when he identified Jesus as the ‘Jehovah of hosts’ from Isaiah 8:13 in 1 Peter 2.

    Shouldn’t we believe both ways that Peter identifies the Son and not just one way Peter has identified the Son???

    Has Jehovah of hosts become a stumbling block to those who don’t believe that Peter correctly identifies Jesus as the Jehovah of hosts of Isaiah 8:13? Some people stumble over this truth by denying it and its significance and then make internet forums to try to cleverly convince others to deny it also.

    Isaiah 8
    11For Jehovah spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,

    12Say ye not, A conspiracy, concerning all whereof this people shall say, A conspiracy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be in dread thereof .

    13Jehovah of hosts, him shall ye sanctify; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.

    14And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

    15And many shall stumble thereon, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

    16Bind thou up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 17And I will wait for Jehovah, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 18Behold, I and the children whom Jehovah hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from Jehovah of hosts, who dwelleth in mount Zion.

    Eternal life is to know the ONLY true God AND Jesus Christ whom HE has sent. The only one who is true God is the Father and Yeshua is his son, the only one who is both true God/true Man. ;)

    1. Avatar of Wakeup Wakeup says:

      Lightenup.

      You are so close and yet so far.
      Jesus was God’s own Word made flesh.
      God created all things through His Word.
      He spoke and it is done.God’s Word is a living Word.
      What I hear my father say, that I speak.
      The Word of God is always in subjection to God.
      Just as your word is to you.

      wakeup.

    2. Avatar of Lightenup Lightenup says:

      Wakeup, we disagree here. The ‘word of God’ in one context does not have the same meaning in all the verses that it is found. Sometimes it refers to a person who is identified as Jesus in the NT and as Jehovah in the OT but not Jehovah the Father.

  2. Avatar of Wakeup Wakeup says:

    Allah is not the God of abraham,Isaac,and Jacob.
    Because Allah does not have a only begotten son.

    Abdulla:

    God has a Son,He was prophesied 2500 years before His birth.
    This can not be a jewish conspiracy; because the jews killed Him.
    And today still rejects Him. He is the Word of God made flesh

    Isaiah 9:6
    ***For unto us a child is born***,
    ***unto us a son is given***:
    ***and the government shall be upon his shoulder***:
    ***and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
    ***The mighty God***,
    *** The everlasting Father***,
    ***The Prince of Peace***.

    To know who Jesus really is; one needs to pray for it, and study.
    Because even many christians can not find the answer.
    For scripture says:in Luke 10:22.

  3. Avatar of mikeboll64 mikeboll64 says:

    There is but one Almighty God who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them.

    Jesus either IS that one God……. or he is the SON OF that one God.

    Plus, the fact that Jesus has a God of his own (who Jesus says is also OUR God) proves that he is not that one Almighty God. The Most High God doesn’t have a God of His own.

  4. Abdulla says:

    Good Morning, I don’t really know what time it is there since I’m in Kuwait. ‎I came across your website by searching the net to understand why do Christians believe in the trinity when the prophet eissa preached to pray to Allah (God). Now before you get me wrong I respect everyone’s religion and have friends pretty much from all religions, but I do enjoy a spiritual chat to understand people. The main thing Islam preaches is that God is One. All I’m asking is read it not about it and decide yourself. Some people just never. Get the message.

  5. Dankwansere says:

    This article is very well written and stated the points from the bible very well. What most Trinitarian believers dont understand is that the concept of “Trinity” is never once mentioned or preached upon in the bible from Genesis to Old testament. If someone does not believe in the Trinity, it does not mean that that person does not exalt God. I read the bible thoroughly and I do not rely on my pastors or whatever to teach me because I’ve come to realize that some pastors out there will sometimes teach things that are no where to be found in the bible. In my church I was surprised when some of the elders were praying to Jesus? Jesus never once said to pray to him!!?!?. When the disciples asked Jesus how to pray..did Jesus not pray to the Heavenly Father(YHWH)? Yet these people who believe in the Trinity have it in mind to not follow what Jesus taught. When Jesus was resurrected he said “I am going to my Father and your Father, My God and Your God”. What more proof do you people need that shows Jesus is not the Father nor is he equal to the Father. Jesus received dominion and Power. The father does not receives dominion and power because The Father HIMSELF is dominion and power, he does not need anybody to give it to him. There is only ONE GOD(The Father) and One Lord Jesus Christ. Even 1st Corinthians 15-27 fully states “For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ”. That passage fully states that God put everything under Christ to rule over except for God himself. How then can Trinitarians say that Jesus is equal to the Father? Trinity is a false doctrine that tries to change the word of Christ. I wish more Christians would read the bible for themselves and actually understand the difference between what God has written in his words and what is being preached in churches!

    1. Avatar of DavidL DavidL says:

      If God has put everything under Christ’s feet…doesn’t that put Christ in equal position to God..?? If you are seated at the right hand of All Authority…what Authority does that give you..??
      -
      Jesus said, I and the Father are ONE..!!!
      -
      Paul said, In Christ DWELLS the fullness of the Godhead bodily..!!!
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      John said, The Word was God..!!!
      -
      Really the underlying issue is not so much the Trinity but how we understand Scripture…
      -
      Satan’s whole system of religious deception goes beyond Babylon, it was instituted in the garden of Eden when he tempted Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge..
      -
      Now… thinking we are wise, man substitutes the Scriptures with his own carnal theology and logic-based interpretations..thus the institution of Christianity is as corrupted (and divided) as the Pharisees..
      -
      But Christ builds His true Body on the REVELATION of His Word which gives Life – Spiritual Life… When our eyes are opened we no longer rely on the deceitful teachings of man to instruct us in the doctrinal correctness (or incorrectness) of the Trinity.. because, Like Thomas, we suddenly SEE who Jesus is..!!!

    2. Avatar of Admin Admin says:

      DavidL, you have missed the obvious. If God puts everything under Christ’s feet, then who is God? Jesus? No. God put everything under Jesus feet, thus God is the Father right. And this is what I have been saying all along and it is this that you say is false doctrine, yet even this scripture you quote says it too.

      You can try to make this and that teach the Trinity, but I only need to point out basic things like this to blow this assumption out of the water. God made Jesus Lord over his creation.

      You could argue that the Pharaoh made Joseph lord over his kingdom, thus Joseph is the Pharaoh, whereas I would make the same basic argument that Joseph is not the Pharaoh, rather Pharaoh made Joseph lord.

      Just to double check this is correct, you only need see in scripture that Jesus does not do anything that the Father is not doing or doesn’t say anything that the Father does not say. Likewise Joseph as a lord over Egypt did not do that which was contrary to Pharaoh’s will or against him. The idea is that the Pharaoh trusted him because of his wisdom to exercise authority on his behalf. This is the same with Jesus. God trusts him and God knows that Jesus will always do his will.

    3. Avatar of DavidL DavidL says:

      Of course the Father is God…but by relying on your own carnal understanding you deny the true Deity of Jesus Christ, thus, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, you now teach something that is at odds with Scripture… and must change the wording of John 1:1 to fit with your logic.

    4. Avatar of Admin Admin says:

      Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

      Jesus said the Father is the ONLY true God. You are free to disagree of course.

    5. Avatar of Admin Admin says:

      As far as John 1:1′s usage of theos, have you not read where Jesus said: “‘Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are theos’.
      If he called them theos, to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,”…..”Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’”?

      Notice that Jesus called it blasphemy to say that he is God. He defended this accusation by reminding them of the usage of theos as being a/the son.

      From here was he quoting: Psalms 82:6,
      “I said, `You are theos/elohim; you are all sons of the Most High.”

      When you understand this, you understand how theos is used in scripture. And it is not always YHWH being referenced. This is why we have the title MOST HIGH Theos. Why have that, if theos always meant YHWH?

      If you even pondered this for a few minutes you could see it is true and scripture is testimony to this. But I suspect you are more comfortable being blind on this and following the masses, and will continue to call Jesus YHWH and the Most High God, which is blasphemy.

    6. Avatar of DavidL DavidL says:

      Your reasoning is all twisted because you are trying to grasp things with your MIND – that can only be understood with your HEART..!!!
      -
      And so according to your interpretation of John 1:1 (and the Greek word theos), Jesus becomes a second god…?!
      -
      Is that really what the Bible teaches concerning Jesus Christ -definitely not..!! Again you prove yourself guilty of the very thing you condemn others of – picking individual verses out to support your own ideas.

    7. Avatar of DavidL DavidL says:

      Concerning John 17:3 – The Father IS the only true God but NOT to the exclusion of the Son…!!! You try and separate the two when Jesus is here expressly joining Himself with the Father…!!!
      -
      “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, AND Jesus Christ whom He has sent”…
      -
      Eternal Life is in Jesus Christ… but you take the LETTER of the Word, and miss the REALITY (just to try and prove your teaching) – the EXACT same blunder of the Pharisees..!!!

    8. Avatar of Admin Admin says:

      You said: “Concerning John 17:3 – The Father IS the only true God but NOT to the exclusion of the Son…!!!”

      That is just another way of saying Jesus was wrong. Jesus said that the Father was the only true God and you say he is not because Jesus is also the only true God.

      You are deceiving yourself if you think otherwise. Serious stuff DavidL. But funny too when I hear all the excuses under the sun. Your quote above takes the cake though because it is a clear example of an oxymoron.

    9. Avatar of Admin Admin says:

      You say my reasoning is all twisted because I am trying to grasp things with my MIND – that can only be understood with my HEART..!!!

      I believe with all my heart that Jesus was correct when he said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

      Rather it is you who does not believe Jesus words with all your heart. And why? Because your mind gets in the way. Your mind is soaked in the Trinity and it gets in the way.

      Listen to your heart and hear Jesus words. If you cannot hear him, then you by no means belong to him. It is not I that says this, but scripture.

    10. Avatar of DavidL DavidL says:

      Again you assume that everyone else is like you, with a mind soaked in doctrine…clinging to your logic like it’s gold – when really it has become your tomb stone.
      -
      It was the words of Christ that saved my life 25 yrs ago…but when you use them to justify your teaching you make them dead and worthless.
      -
      Cults are good at quoting Scripture – but what do you prove..?
      -
      You make an argument against the revealed truth, that God is Triune.. tying to justify it with John 17:3 (like the heretic Arius in AD 325)
      saying that Jesus is not the one true God…
      -
      SO – according to you, John must have got it wrong when he said “The Word was God” – he must have meant that Jesus was a another separate god dwelling WITH the one true God and in the exact same LIKENESS of the one true God – EXCEPT Scripture says there is NONE beside Him…NONE like Him…???
      -
      so WHO has got himself into an awful mess…!!!
      -
      You think you escaped Babylon but really you’re still there – still eating from the tree of knowledge..believing the lie that you will become wise.. when our wisdom is Christ ALONE. (Revelation not Theology…God not man).

    11. Avatar of Admin Admin says:

      It was the words of Christ that saved my life 25 yrs ago…but when you use them to justify your teaching you make them dead and worthless.
      -
      Cults are good at quoting Scripture – but what do you prove..?

      I am glad that his words saved you. But do not let the word be powerless in your life henceforth. Let it renew your mind daily. Be a disciple, not the standard for truth.

      Jesus said that the only true God was the Father and knowing him and his son is eternal life. You cannot argue against it. It is too simple to use trickery and change its meaning. Just accept it or reject it. So far you have rejected it. What that means to you I cannot say. Up to God what he does with us.

      You once accepted the truth in order to be saved. Why did you stop there?

    12. Avatar of DavidL DavidL says:

      The Father IS the only true God – but NOT to the exclusion of the Son…
      -
      …not another way of saying Jesus was wrong – but another way of saying “I and the Father are One.”

    13. Avatar of Admin Admin says:

      No David. It means he was one with God as we are also encouraged to be.

      John 17:21
      that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

      The logical conclusion from your view is that we must also be God if your definition of oneness is accepted.

    14. Avatar of DavidL DavidL says:

      Let go of your logic, it REALLY IS the root of your deception – Jesus is ONE with the Father…”Before Abraham was – I AM.”
      -
      ..if we are born from above and CONTINUE in Spirit and in Truth, we are as a BRANCH grafted into Christ the Vine…BUT WE ARE NOT THE VINE – truly your logic is a curse…!!!
      -
      John 17:5 “Now, glorify Me, My Father, in union with Yourself, in that glory which I had in union with You before the universe was.”
      -
      Christ is ONE with God in what the Bible terms as “The Godhead”…and what believers know as “The Trinity.”
      -
      You once knew this (as all born again believers do at the beginning) – but now your natural mind has led you up the garden path…into a world of uninspired doctrine and Pharisaical theology – you are eating from the Tree of Knowledge and it has totally beguiled you.
      -
      Come back to the Tree of Life – rely on the Spirit for understanding.
      -
      Our God is a Triune God…!!! True – it is a paradox, but that is EXACTLY why the carnal mind cannot comprehend it – it is a REVELATION… knowledge imparted directly into our hearts from the Spirit of God..(we cannot understand it any other way)…and this is where you have stumbled.

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