Bloodless atonement

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  • #792314
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    How is it separate from the Vine? Better yet it is directly connected to the Husbandman

    John 15:1
    I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

    In HIS house there are many mansions and did you know God can have many vines as well

    John 10:7-9King James Version (KJV)

    7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

    8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

    9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    When Jesus says this do you not understand that he is not talking about the previous Prophets sent by God? He is talking about the people who preached that they were the messiah….we know this is true because the sheep DID hear the Prophets like Moses

    #792339
    Ed J
    Participant

    Who is sitting on the horse?

    “The Word” of God

    God’s HolySpirit’s name is called The Word of God. And the armies
    which were in heaven followed him upon white horses. (ref. Rev 19:13-14)

    “For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death.” (Psalms 48:14)

    #792342
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    So is the Word of God on a literal horse?

    #792351
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Jesus is the vine.

    You can only produce thorns and thistles from those plants.

    #792352
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    I didn’t say Jesus wasn’t the vine I said he wasn’t the Husbandman, isn’t that right?

    #792353
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Tell us of these other vines.

    You know the door but refuse to enter.

     

     

    #792355
    Ed J
    Participant

    So is the Word of God on a literal horse?

    The white horse (of Rev.19:11) that The Word rides on symbolizes the new man.
    And the other white horses (of Rev.19:14) are those that have put on the new man.

    B’shem
    YHVH

    #792356
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Wow, how did you find the meaning to all these symbols? Are there scriptures that correlate?

    #792357
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Do you want to know who the white horse of Rev.19:11 is?

    #792359
    Ed J
    Participant

    Wow, (1)how did you find the meaning to all these symbols? (2)Are there scriptures that correlate?

    Hi BD,

    1) By the spirit of God.
    “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?
    even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.” (1 Corinthians 2:11)

    2) Yes
    “(Jesus Christ) having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
    for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both
    unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby” (Eph 2:15-16)

    “put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him” (Col 3:10)

    B’shem
    YHVH

    #792360
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Yes, I would like to know

    #792361
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    A branch cannot produce fruit unless joined with the vine.

    What you need is the sap of the Holy Spirit to grasp spiritual things.

    Your religion cannot give you this but Jesus, the Son of God, can.

     

    #792368
    Ed J
    Participant

    Yes, I would like to know

    #792370
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Without blood there is no forgiveness.

    #792371
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Jesus entered the heavenly holy of Holies through his own blood.[heb 9.12]

    Did you want to be included in the benefits of this event?

    #793599
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    I have already shown you that atonement does not need blood, will you deny the scriptures.

    “And Moses said unto Aaron, ‘Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from [YHWH]; the plague is begun.’ And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the p lague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people.” (Numbers 16:46-47)

    “The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto [YHWH], to make an atonement for your souls. And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unt o the children of Israel before [YHWH], to make an atonement for your souls.” (Exodus 30:15-16)

    “But if his means are insufficient for two turtledoves or two young pigeons, then for his offering for that which he has sinned, he shall bring the tenth of an ephah 5 of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall not put oil on it or place incense on it, for it is a sin offering.” (Leviticus 5:11)

    Psalms 49:7 No one can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for them–

    #793600
    NickHassan
    Participant

    hi BD,

    Your use of reason does not change the plan of God.

    It just shows your need to oppose Him.

    #793617
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    You just need to tell me do you believe these verses or not, you are always saying you are scripture based but when the scriptures are shown and you don’t like them you accuse the person as if they wrote them or made them up.

    Psalms 49:7 No one can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for them–

    Is this scripture true or false? we know you have to believe this as false, but why?

    #793620
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    You miss out the context

    Ps 49.6f

    Those that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches,

    none of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.

    Context matters unless you are intent on deceit

     

    #793623
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi Nick

    Psalms 49:6-7 ESV

    5Why should I fear in times of trouble,
    when the iniquity of those who cheat me surrounds me,
    6those who trust in their wealth
    and boast of the abundance of their riches?

    7Truly no man can ransom another,
    or give to God the price of his life,

    These are two separate thoughts, shall I just give you another witness?

    New International Version Deuteronomy 24:16

    Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.

    New International Version
    I the LORD do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.

    Is that clearer to you or do you need another?

    You keep trying to escape the fact that Jesus was BETRAYED and the plot was MURDER there was no offering up, they came to get him(arrest him) how is that offering? He cried and begged God to spare him, how is that an offer, this is the reality you deny

    Luke 22:44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

    where in this do you see a grand design planned from all of eternity in which if that were the case Luke 22:44 wouldn’t exist, but a real man was under real stress because real murderers were going to take his life, he wasn’t offering anything but God heard his cry and brought their plans to nothing

    Surah 3:54 And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners.

    Surah 3:55 Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

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